Association for the Study of Greek Popular Art Dimitris
My collection is a repository – The Greek collector Dimitris Daskalopoulos is known not just as the owner of one of today's conceptually strongest collections of contemporary art but also as one of the most influential personalities on the current art scene in full general.
A visionary and patron, Dimitris Daskalopoulos is a Vice President of the Board of Trustees of the Solomon R. Guggenheim Foundation, Chairman of the Collections Council of the Solomon R. Guggenheim Foundation, and an active member of the Board of Trustees of the Museum of Gimmicky Fine art Chicago, the Tate International Council and the Leadership Quango of the New Museum and a founding partner of the Whitechapel'southward Future Fund. In 2013 Daskalopoulos founded a not-turn a profit cultural organization called NEON, whose goal is to back up and promote contemporary art in Greece and particularly Athens.
Even though Daskalopoulos' collection of 500+ works of art by 220 artists from Greece and away (Marina Abramović, Robert Gober, Damien Hirst, Louise Bourgeois, David Hammons, Matthew Barney, Martin Kippenberger, Annette Messager, Mona Hatoum, Bruce Nauman, Ernesto Neto and others) might seem like a existent "Who'south Who" of the art world, the collector has never been 1 to amass trophies. The conceptual foundation of his collection has been influenced past the works of Greek philosopher Nikos Kazantzakis, who spoke of life as a "luminous interval" between nascency and expiry and the human body at its center as a "source of inventiveness and the vessel of existential, social and ideological struggle".
Large installations and sculptures make up the majority of works in the D.Daskalopoulos Collection, although it as well contains drawings, collages, films and video. At 450 square meters, one of the largest pieces of artwork is Christoph Büchel'due south installation titled "Unplugged (Simply Botiful)" (2007).
Built-in to a working class family, Daskalopoulos went on to plow his family's dairy business into Greece's largest nutrient empire, Vivartia, and in 2007 he sold his share in the business. He says his passion for collecting began already in childhood, and his human relationship with art began at age twelve, when he spent two hours completely spellbound by Rubens' paintings at the Alte Pinakothek in Munich. At the first of his career equally an art collector, he full-bodied on Greek painting from the 1950s, and he merely turned to contemporary art in the early on 1990s at the age of forty.
I met Daskalopoulos in primal Athens and immediately he speaks openly, slowly, deliberately and very constructively, as if he has already formulated his answers to most of life'southward questions long ago. Just every one time in a while his seriousness is interrupted by a spontaneous spark of humor that reveals a man with a very potent personality in which a strict businessman coexists with an creative sensitivity.
UNA MEISTERE When speaking about your collection, y'all oftentimes refer to the Greek etymology of the verb "to collect", namely, "to say something with." What do you lot see equally your mission as a collector and what practise y'all wish to tell the world with your drove?
I use the Greek etymology of the word considering that was what I discovered I was doing when I was collecting. I was choosing artworks that speak with each other, artworks that carry the same central message and artists and artworks that can add to the exploration of this general message. My collection is really very focused; it is very centered around the master issue of the homo struggle and the human ability to create. The creativity of a being that has a very short life span and knows nearly the limitations and the brusk amount of time we have hither in this world. But despite that, nosotros are full of energy to create new things, to progress. These are the kinds of works I've always selected, works from artists who talk nearly this discipline – the examination of human fragility together with human strength and inventiveness. And that's why the Greek etymology of the give-and-take "to collect" is very present in my collection.
UNA MEISTERE Are these the questions that are also very important for yous in your own life? Mayhap through collecting yous are trying to detect the answers?
My business organization life has been ane of abiding progress. Sometimes you end and wonder – where does this energy come up from, where does it atomic number 82, why are we and then motivated and committed? It's the marvel of human existence. That's what I really adore. Of course, my drove has an emphasis on fragility, which exists just to betrayal this marvel. Because it'southward precisely despite this fragility that nosotros are so committed to the struggle – to create, to be, to leave a footprint, to leave something behind.
UNA MEISTERE The yr 1999 was a sort of turning signal in your collection. That twelvemonth you bought a replica of Marcel Duchamp'due south original "Fountain" at sale for i.76 meg dollars. You now own the slice numbered 5. What captures you lot in this work of art, besides its iconic status?
It was non a turning point in the sense of what my drove is trying to say. Information technology was more than of a turning signal in the sense that the collection was already large enough and it was a decision, a fresh call, to move from existence an apprentice who likes and collects things to making a commitment to become a serious collector. It was a shift, an adjustment that I made myself. I said, "I can stop here, I can be happy as a person, as a collector. But if I go on from hither, it volition be something very big." And I decided I wanted the drove to be big. And now, of course, ten years later this has all been realized. My collection is being asked for past museums, for exhibitions and is respected equally something beautiful and for its key message.
As I looked at contemporary art, I realized I was much more interested in what contemporary creativity tin can do with expanded media and what it can say almost the world of today.
UNA MEISTERE The start piece of gimmicky art you bought was the kinetic sculpture "The Painting in the Inner Egg" (1993) past Rebecca Horn.
That was also because information technology was a painting. Information technology'due south an artwork that in a certain way does away with painting, an issue which has been very critical for me because I realized my love of art through painting, of class.
UNA MEISTERE Because that was easier in some way?
Yes, because when you lot go to museums, you lot run across great painting. Of course, you can't ignore the not bad history of beautiful art that has been done on canvas. But as I looked at contemporary fine art, I realized I was much more interested in what contemporary creativity can do with expanded media and what it tin can say almost the world of today. In i sense, Rebecca Horn'southward slice was a symbolic gesture: a painting on a white canvas and an egg. In effect, painting was put away in an egg – in order to continue on. To go along towards other expressions of contemporary creativity. That's why at that place are very few paintings in my collection since so. I very often get to bang-up museums and, as I said, what I see there humbles me. But that is exactly where the great paintings vest.
UNA MEISTERE Now you have everything in your drove, from big sculptures and installations to digital works. Does that mean that the most essential thing for you is the message, not the form?
Well, it'south definitely not the fiscal aspect, nor the easiness of looking at something, nor the pleasure of living with your artworks. Those things are much less important for me. When I display some larger installations, which, of course, are harder to observe and meet, and afterwards I get there and run into the reactions of people, the emotions they create in people, that's what makes me happy. Much more than than looking at a painting on my living room wall every day.
My collection is a repository. Information technology's available to museums, for loans, and I requite it out every bit much every bit I can.
UNA MEISTERE That is the departure between y'all and another Greek art collector, Mr Dakis Joannou, who has a beautiful firm total of artwork, which I visited just yesterday. Yous accept no need to be surrounded with artwork in your everyday life? Is that not important to you at all?
No, and that's why I proceed saying that my collection, for me, is non an asset that I feel is mine in the sense that I desire to play with it and bear witness it off. I feel that I have an interest and the financial means to put together a good expression of the creativity of other people, and for me it'due south there to be shown, to be loaned, to be open to the public. And this leads to another action of mine, which is completely different from collecting: the not-turn a profit cultural organization NEON (from the Greek word for "new" – U.Thousand.), which I established five years ago and whose goal is to expose people to contemporary art and its ideas, to stimulate them to recall and to rouse in them the emotions that can be brought about by contemporary art. NEON is completely unrelated to my drove, and that's also the reason I'm not planning to create a special space to exhibit it.
UNA MEISTERE And that'due south despite the rumors in the media that you're looking for a permanent space to brandish your collection?
No. My collection is a repository. It'southward available to museums, for loans, and I give it out as much every bit I can. The NEON organization is near helping people to come up in contact with contemporary fine art. And I feel I don't need my own space to exercise that. There are public institutions, at that place is public infinite bachelor and initiatives by other people, and I support those, likewise as instigating my own. And then, one of the things we've recently done is to announce an important back up program for the National Museum of Contemporary Art, equally well as several teaching programs, etc.
UNA MEISTERE You accept called the current economic crisis more of a crisis of civilization.
Yep, and a cultural crisis.
UNA MEISTERE I heard the shocking statistics that in Greece just 16% of the people go to museums. How can this be in a country with such deep cultural traditions?
Information technology's because nosotros've taken our cultural heritage for granted. And that is the reason why contemporary art is even more of import in terms of influencing our culture. We were keen achievers historically – in art and creativity, in philosophy and democracy – but we are now living in the 21st century. And if nosotros want to alive better and prosper in our own fourth dimension, nosotros have to create the circumstances for it in this century. For me, civilization is fundamentally important in this procedure. Especially given the fact that we have such a great history, which is embedded deep in our souls. That's why we don't accept a demand to go and meet it, because it is inside usa.
UNA MEISTERE In your claret and genes?
(Laughs) Aye, we accept the direct bloodline of Phidias, who built the statues for the Acropolis. We feel that we have historically done everything in the realm of culture. Simply present – if we are able – we need to become relevant, creative and special again, in the culture of today. We cannot just carry the laurels of a cracking past. That's not enough for us. And I must say, there is a lot of creativity and a lot of innovation going on in this city, and what we need is to just brand information technology a part of everyday life. Much more than it is today.
UNA MEISTERE Do you think fine art nowadays has the power to change something in order?
Aye. Not art in and of itself, not a specific piece of work, not a specific exhibition but the fact that somebody will get exposed to – and maybe obsessed by art, will endeavor to sympathize, will speak with his friends and his family most a new thought, sort of squeeze his mind in a dissimilar style, exterior of the routine. That is the value of art.
UNA MEISTERE Is it important for you to run into the artists whose works you have bought or are thinking to purchase?
No, I do not meet it as a prerequisite. Considering, you know, I seek the power in the artwork itself. I have a very sensitive mechanism here inside me (points to his chest – U.K), which responds very strongly when an artwork touches me. Of course, I respect the personality of the artist. If somebody tin can make a powerful piece of fine art, patently there is something in this personality that is interesting and powerful. But I don't need that, because the artist is making the artwork so, after, there is fourth dimension to allow the artwork itself speak. And if the artwork speaks, we don't necessarily need to take an extra debate with the artist. Considering a powerful piece of artwork has a life of its own. Inside each ane of united states of america. And inside each 1 of us it is unlike. We all react differently to an artwork. Nosotros all interpret it in a different way, it means different things to the states. A powerful artwork doesn't need an artist to be present to explain it.
Information technology'due south more important what yous reject, rather than what you buy.
UNA MEISTERE Speaking of the human relationship between an artwork's value and toll. Is there a correlation betwixt the ii, and how important is information technology? Hasn't the irrationality of the market turned some of the artists into manufacturers, past pressing them to create more and more artwork?
I remember Michelangelo would be complaining besides. And Mozart, who was asked to write 1 symphony for this emperor and another symphony for that aristocrat. But in the terminate, we are left with some masterpieces that we beloved to hear.
UNA MEISTERE Not all of them are masterpieces, of course.
Of form not, but time makes the distinction quite accurately.
UNA MEISTERE Speaking about time, what practice you lot think – how many artworks from your collection will laissez passer this test of time? Especially every bit there is an opinion that well-nigh of the contemporary art we value at the moment volition get historically insignificant in the hereafter and cease upwardly as garbage.
Yeah, a lot of what nosotros buy is real garbage and won't last anyhow. But I'k not looking very seriously at conservation issues. I don't heed if an artist makes a piece of work that is designed to be flimsy and temporal – that'south fine with me. If I buy something and then, 5 or six years later, it doesn't exist anymore, that'south not a trouble. I have a lot of artwork by artists who did not develop further or did not become very famous, but I still accept absolutely no regret about buying anything. I remember a piece of work that I bought twenty-v years agone by a Luxembourgian artist that I never heard of again. Merely I'one thousand longing to see it in an exhibition because I think it is a slap-up work of art. So I think that would exist my bulletin to anybody who thinks that art collecting tin can be done as an investment. Information technology cannot. If you lot are passionate and create a collection, you may exist lucky and accept your good moments of great revaluation. Just overall, collecting is mostly nearly the honey with which you put things together, and in the end it'south an investment like all others – with very long and very average returns.
UNA MEISTERE Have you sold anything from your collection?
I've simply sold nigh 10 pieces over the course of twenty years. Particularly when I decide to move on with an artist and in that way I get better works by that artist. Or purely conceptually – some of the artists I paid attention to when I began collecting are no longer significant now that my collection has become larger and more established. Otherwise, I do not trade in art.
UNA MEISTERE How have you trained yourself to distinguish good art from bad art? Some collectors accept told united states of america that this is a lifetime process.
Yous get better and ameliorate all the time. Only in the end, I think it'southward something in here (touches his center – U.M.). I call up we all make mistakes and there are better collections and worse collections, but in the end it'south the collector'due south power to decide between things. It'southward more than important what you reject, rather than what you buy.
UNA MEISTERE If your collection is more most the human life span, this curt period between life and death, is information technology important for yous what happens with information technology later you will laissez passer away?
Yes. Especially because, as I said, I don't recollect the collection belongs to me alone as an asset. I remember it belongs to the artists, to the public, to the world of ideas. And information technology should stay there somehow, to create a reaction. I call up the futurity of my drove is clearly associated with public institutions. But which ones – I have yet to determine. Even so, I think a collection is clearly associated with and lives because of the passion of its creator. And when you are no longer there, the drove is also not there anymore; information technology becomes a time capsule of the by that nobody tin can keep alive. It'll probably exist better to put it back where people can see it. At to the lowest degree some of the artwork.
UNA MEISTERE When you buy a new slice of artwork, where practise you lot look for it? In sale houses, artists' studios, galleries etc?
Everywhere.
The emotion that fine art can generate is everywhere here – in the heart, the lungs, the stomach, in the heart.
UNA MEISTERE Some collectors compare this process to hunting. Particularly men, because they say that deep down in their souls all men are hunters and all of them in some way like to own things.
Yep, just there and so very much game out in that location, millions of opportunities to hunt and acquire. And, you know, anyway yous will only get a very small part of it. Therefore y'all shouldn't worry so much nearly if you've missed something or take non gotten the best toll, or about whether yous've prevented someone else from getting what you've desired. In any case, no matter what you do and how much you lot can invest in art, you are but making a small imprint in some niggling corner of this huge universe of creativity. It'due south a matter of luck, and that's too the fun of information technology. I take had works offered to me that I didn't purchase and now I want them, and I have works that I know other people would have killed for that in the end went to me, only that's the reality.
UNA MEISTERE Do you lot accept advice from art consultants?
Yes, I have a small team of people. We talk; we go through the drove all the time. We find the central themes; nosotros make lists of artists that nosotros demand to explore. We evaluate the artists represented in the collection from the standpoint of which works from specific periods of theirs we may still exist lacking. And and then, you know, one day you exit and in that location is something sitting in a corner and you think, "Perfect, this is for my collection, I will go it." No word with anybody.
UNA MEISTERE You one time stated in an interview that in order to decide to buy a certain piece of art, you need to feel this special vibration in your stomach.
You know, the tummy is at that place and information technology functions all the time. That's why we get hungry afterwards a few hours. It'due south the same with art. Information technology stimulates a reaction in the tum. The emotion that art tin can generate is everywhere here – in the heart, the lungs, the stomach, in the center. Or maybe it all happens in the unexplored and remarkable human being brain, which nosotros might call the heart or soul. I don't know. But I enjoy getting a reaction and I trust it.
UNA MEISTERE Is collecting in some way your refuge from business?
I've collected art as passionately as I've washed business. And I recall it'south been with a lot of success as well. Maybe the business was a refuge from my passion for fine art, who knows? Why do I presume that business is my primary activity? I've washed it all with a lot of interest, with a lot of honey and passion. They're inseparable; these two worlds are a part of me.
UNA MEISTERE What communication exercise yous have for immature collectors?
If you love it, do it. Otherwise go surfing.
UNA MEISTERE Is there whatsoever piece of fine art y'all wished yous had in your collection but couldn't beget?
(Laughs) Many things. I sometimes get a sinister urge to grab things from museum walls and put them in my pocket and go out. Don't you, too? As I said, in that location is and then much proficient art and that'southward why it's good where it is. The work that created such a reference for me is the Bernini sculpture. I could look at information technology every solar day.
This interview was originally published in Arterritory's "Conversations With Collectors, No. 1"
Society the latest issue of the magazine here.
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Source: https://independent-collectors.com/interviews/dimitris-daskalopoulos-arterritory/
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